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Post by TEX on Aug 6, 2006 7:48:32 GMT -5
democracy->bureaucracy->corruption->revolution-
-->dicatorship->war->democracy
\ -or-
->new thinking->detatchmentalism->true communism
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Post by B8 on Aug 8, 2006 12:14:00 GMT -5
Every one of those changes means a war has started and ended. Calling it a revolution is a misnomer.
Oh and if you want to live in a communist country take the easy way out and move to China or Cuba.
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Post by Canadian Nose on Aug 8, 2006 18:08:29 GMT -5
I wouldnt call that Easy. easier than a revolution I guess, but I dont think living in Cuba or China would be a stroll in the park.
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Post by TEX on Aug 8, 2006 19:20:55 GMT -5
How many times must i say it...
no wait, i won't say it again, because you should know by now...
and under the right circumstances, a revolution is quite easy (see Hitler, Romanov, or Louis the 16th)
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Post by B8 on Aug 9, 2006 7:49:50 GMT -5
Those were concealed wars, a lot of people died. War to the rescue and another problem solved by fighting.
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Post by Canadian Nose on Aug 9, 2006 14:42:12 GMT -5
Does war solve things? I think most can agree it does. but at what costs.
We can go to war and free a country. We lose 1.5 Million Young Men and Women. Or, we can speak, talk, and then send in a volunteer force that causes the loss of 150,000 Men and women. War solves problems, but you must weigh cost with result. Is it worth 30 Million Allied troops to free the world from Hitlers Reign? Most would say yes.
Was it worth over 2,000 men and women, and countless civilians (Bush sauys 30,000. Lead Analyst says 100,000.) to free Sadam from Power and start a bloody insurgency that has killed more people that Sadam ever had? Most would say no.
Gramps, Killing is the Solution. Sad? if you die, you wont feel sorrow. Broken Leg? I shoot you, you wont feel it anymore. Its the solution, but not nessecarily the best solution. Maybe a doctors visit would go better...
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Post by Kami on Aug 10, 2006 0:27:43 GMT -5
War solves nothing.
i've said it before, i'll say it again.
War solves nothing, wahtever it may be fights, skirmish, conflicts, they solve nothing and only leave feelings for more.
im abit of an optimist, but i belive a war does nothing but spread wars.
the actions made during combat effects everyone on a scale, wether soldiers, civilians, death is felt all around. Dont tell me the short-term affects of "liberating a country", "bringing back afew hostages", all these spread back to past wars. WW2 was uselessand woulda never happend if WW1 never happend, or at least humanity's brutality to itself wasnt as harsh with the treaty of versailles. Even genocides are acounted for for unreasonable.
i've seen war, i've once again been affected by it with reccent conflicts in my homecountry. nothing is solved from combat of any kind. War is the lazyness of world leader's to seattle/accept diffrences/talks in each other.
War solves nothing.
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Post by B8 on Aug 10, 2006 17:27:22 GMT -5
If only we could give the leaders a chessboard and shoot the looser. Perhaps the Chinese had it right many thousands of years ago. Let the winner of the game take all the cookies. It aint a goona happen today folks. But is is a nice thought.
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Post by Canadian Nose on Aug 15, 2006 21:27:48 GMT -5
I dont think WWII was useless. Throwing down and liberating a people from a vicious pchycopathic dictator spreading totalitarianism and comited genocide are valid reasons to go to war. And im not speaking of Germans, im speaking of Jews, homosexuals, christians, and nieghbooring countries. With ~ 30 Million soldiers dead, the question is not wether the war was useless. Or wether war is a solution. Its is not uselss, and it is a solution in most cases. The question should be is it worth it. Is war the best route to solving a problem, and what about when it is the only route. Do you feel that us being in Iraq is worth 50,000* Civilian Deaths and 3,000 American Troops dead, with countless more affected? Do you feel that it was worth 30 Million troops (26 million of them russian) to liberate those under regime, or to defend Russias borders? Do you think someone whos grandfather was rescued by Allied troops would feel the same way? Just like do you feel someone in Iraq would feel the same? War is A solution, but not always the solution (*http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article7170.htm, www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=05/12/14/154251Official government stats are 30,000, but this is a low estimate by most counts) |
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Post by Chu-Chu on Aug 16, 2006 8:14:36 GMT -5
any problem with multiple variables has multiple solutions, and yes, the question is, what means in the best to the ends. Not necessarily what is easiest, or quickest, but what is best is what is needed.
~Chu
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Post by B8 on Aug 16, 2006 19:21:42 GMT -5
Non zero sum game thory.
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Post by Canadian Nose on Aug 16, 2006 20:51:29 GMT -5
Oh cmon man, christ. Always making me look crap up.
Thats Zero Sum, which essentialy says 1 winner. Non Zero Sum Game would mean that there can be more than one winner... or something.. ??
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Post by B8 on Aug 17, 2006 12:40:03 GMT -5
Zero sum - no winner, positive number and you win. Negative numbers are bad news for your side.
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Post by TEX on Aug 22, 2006 9:38:13 GMT -5
The ends never justify the means, that is the only way you can lose a revolution
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Post by B8 on Aug 22, 2006 12:46:31 GMT -5
Show me a dead man and I will show you a conflict resolved. Kill the criminals and there will be and end to their crime wave. Kill the people that start a war and trouble is solved. The ends do justify the means when it comes to saving your own life. The expansion of that idea will take you straight to large scale war. If you want to argue with that go to Isreal and wait for a bomb to go off around you. When you are recovering from you wounds, if you live you would change your mind about war. Go to Lebanon and try to live there. Go to Iraq or Iran or Afganistan. You can be taken hostage and killed. You are a romantic living in a romantic age. You think that you can afford to be romantic forever. This war is coming for all of us and we cannot tell when it will strike here again. So please pull your heads out of the clouds and look around you. Learn how to defend yourself and your family, be ready for if you are not ready the bad guys will take you and...
I just attened a lecture by a local bomb squad. They are ready to search for the liquid explosive that was found in the terorist group in London. Some fool people have been messing with that stuff for years here. Thank goodness all of them have blown themselves up. That stuff is very tricky and unstable at best. We have had our own home grown idiots that are idealists and these are the people that are most likely to be the next people to try this stuff. This is according to the bomb experts that were speaking to us. Kinda reminds me of one kid when I grew up - he is now called lefty.
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