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Post by B8 on Apr 14, 2007 14:12:39 GMT -5
2:12 PM today Steam wants me to restart as it has updated itself.
What have they done now to mess us up?
GOK.
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Post by ŞíŘ on Apr 14, 2007 17:18:40 GMT -5
Steam Client
* Fixed occasional crash when launching a game
* Fixed rare serverbrowser crash for unresponsive game servers
* Fixed case where certain games would need to download more content than required
Oh shit look at all of the things they screwed up!
Grow up, you'd be worse off if they never improved anything.
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Post by B8 on Apr 14, 2007 17:59:13 GMT -5
Every time they fix steam they break the server, well almost every time. So relax and find out what they broke on the server before you start celebrating the grand Steam improvement. The last bunch of fixes almost always breaks the Mani Admin mod and then all of the special scripts have to be re-written. That is what I was commenting about. The constant stream of fixes that breaks our server almost every time.
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Post by ŞíŘ on Apr 14, 2007 18:03:51 GMT -5
Which is awesome except that I've never had Steam update break Mani Admin on my server... well, once. But that was quickly fixed by Mani himself.
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Post by Jayne, The Hero of Canton on Apr 14, 2007 20:16:27 GMT -5
Steam Client * Fixed occasional crash when launching a game * Fixed rare serverbrowser crash for unresponsive game servers * Fixed case where certain games would need to download more content than required Oh shit look at all of the things they screwed up! Grow up, you'd be worse off if they never improved anything. Perhaps we can curb the hostility. It's not necessary, and it won't make you any friends. B8 has every right to be skeptical. The AC clan, the administrators, the mods we use, as well as our host all have a remarkably unfortunate history in regards to steam updates. It usually takes several weeks to fine tune everything into working order after a patch. Albeit, I'm not a server admin. If you think you have the skills to put forward, talk to Amy. Also, keep in mind, steam does not publicly document every change they make with each patch. I (as always) am reluctantly curious to know what changes they made that they didn't tell us about. Cheers, -Jayne |
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Post by ŞíŘ on Apr 14, 2007 20:22:52 GMT -5
Blah. The only changes they admit to not documenting are VAC updates (no comment there). Everything from updated networking (like how cl_interp got a new definition) to minor performance fixes.
If something breaks, it's probably that they fixed something, openly stated it, and that fix broke someone else's hooks into the engine (which is technically not even supported by Valve).
Additionally, Amy is well aware of my skills. Whether or not she wants to utilize them is up to her.
And finally... honestly, I just get bothered by the fact that whenever Steam makes a peep, someone comes on here and whines about it. Nothing bad's happened. Nothing bad probably will happen. Why complain preemptively?
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Post by B8 on Apr 15, 2007 10:04:53 GMT -5
Sir:
I am an old electrical engineer, Murphy has always bitten my backside and will always be around to strike down any so foolish as to think that stuff does not happen.
I am a skeptic and will remain one one for the rest of my life. It is better to be skeptical and remain alive than step blindly into a minefield. If you wish to be an optimist fine be one.
Go to the archives to find out how many times we have had problems. There you will find numerous problems caused by steam.
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Post by ŞíŘ on Apr 15, 2007 12:40:38 GMT -5
 If you think that some guys DLL code running in Source Dedicated Server should always work perfectly, you're nuts. It's a risk you take in running an admin plugin. VALVe should just hire Mani and buy his plugin and make it official-- then if it breaks you can actually blame them. |
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Post by B8 on Apr 15, 2007 18:16:05 GMT -5
"If you think that some guys DLL code running in Source Dedicated Server should always work perfectly, you're nuts. "
"Grow up, you'd be worse off if they never improved anything."
I have no problem with improvements if they are improvements.
The problem comes when you have multiple opinions of what is an improvement. The new radar I like, the new chat function stinks. Some of the improvements are a step backwards and are "breaks" i the system. Ergo they destroy the game and cause a lot of conversation about how lousy the "improvements" are.
Properly written software is backwards compatible. Look at the Apple OS. You can run almost all of the programs written for system 7.1 and forward on todays machines. The memory model for the verions prior to 7.1 were not large enough to allow the old software to run on todays large memory systems, this is not an Apple fault. If there were a proper document for the CSS code then the developers could write code that would not break when the manufacturer updates the program.
Yes I know that this is Windblows and because of that backwards compatibly is impossible. If should be possible for the same version of Windbloiws is if is done correctly the DLL would work without breakage. Now you say that Mani was broken only once on your sever but then you say that I am nuts. Make up your mind. If some guys DLL code works that well that it only broke once then I am not nuts. Either admit that the code gets broken more often or that I am not nuts. You cannot have it both ways.
Also the changes involve more than code. They involve game play in a way that drives people nuts. See the thread about the Nerfing of the shotgun. IN my opinion this is a broken function of the game. When a piece of hardware modeled in the game becomes so unreal that is is called a Nerf gun then we have a break in the game.
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Post by Caboose on Apr 15, 2007 18:43:44 GMT -5
Wouldn't changing the gameplay be changing the code?
Nevermind. I'm gonna have to agree with SiR on this one, since I do think that he is right. It's called Mani Admin mod for a reason. It is not a VALVe regulated server mod. VALVe changes things in the Source code. Mani works off of the Source code. Changing Source code and changing something that Mani uses would, I'm guessing, break it. The latest update looks to be client-side updates, meaning no changes for servers. Meaning Mani should work fine. I don't think a Source change has yet to actually break something - it just changes things and mods break because they don't know where the stuff they're looking for is. I don't know how to make that any simpler. VALVe shouldn't have to worry about backwards compatibility for something that isn't from VALVe. That'd be like saying WoW updates shouldn't change anything so that people don't have to update their mods. Each patch with WoW requires new addons because the patch changes things. God forbid a company fail to be, say, God and do everything perfectly for everyone.
I never got the update thing. At least never the window for downloading it or whatever. But I can still play games. The last, oh, 8 of these "Steam broke something again" threads, I haven't seen those updates. Nor have I seen them break anything that VALVe shouldn't be breaking. All that VALVe should worry about with its updates is the Source engine - all the nice vector stuff and values and everything else that goes into shooter - and not about anything else. What you're wanting VALVe to do is to update Source without making any changes. So change it by leaving it alone. Not gonna happen.
I don't think the shotgun has changed a bit - it's still random as ever for damage and hits, but I did hear the thing where the less pellets that hit the more damage they did. They fixed that, though. And realistically, if someone with a shotgun shoots someone wearing Kevlar at close range, I'm guessing that the person wearing Kevlar is gonna feel it, but probably not start bleeding to death and/or die instantly, as the game has tried to make happen. Kevlar is 5 times stronger than steel - if you feel that the shotgun has been nerfed, I suggest that you try shooting a, let's say 1 inch thick piece of steel and see what happens. They beefed up the P228 and Dualies since those are actually stronger than the game made them, and made the shotgun more realistic. It's not anymore unreal than being able to kill someone by shooting them in the foot or hand repeatedly.
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Post by B8 on Jun 12, 2007 18:14:13 GMT -5
Steam rollered again. Another update today.
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Post by Jayne, The Hero of Canton on Jun 12, 2007 18:34:08 GMT -5
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Post by B8 on Jun 13, 2007 7:06:06 GMT -5
Ilegitmati non carbarundum is Jane's new motto.
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Post by ŞíŘ on Jun 13, 2007 21:22:34 GMT -5
Updates to the Source Engine have been released. The updates will be applied automatically when your Steam client is restarted. The specific changes include:
Pure Servers
* Servers can now force the client to match the server's files, by becoming a pure server. When a server enables sv_pure, clients who connect and play on the server cannot gain an advantage by modifying the game content. For more information about Pure Servers, click here.
(cool)
Source Engine
* In-game server browser only shows human players in the player counts column. Bots column now shows number of bots instead of a "some bots" or "no bots" icon YES! YES YES YES
* Fixed servers with bots reporting incorrect number of bots when sv_master_legacy_mode is set to 0
* Fixed a server performance problem with queued packets
* Increased the maximum rate to 1 megabyte
* Added a findflags console command, which can list all cvars with a specified flag. For example: 'findflags server_can_execute' will find all console variables and commands marked with FCVAR_SERVER_CAN_EXECUTE
* Cheat protected many cvars and commands
* Removed cl_restrict_server_commands to prevent clients from being redirected
* Fixed user names reported as "unconnected" when greater than 32k players had connected to the server
* Fixed a client crash during authentication
* Fixed a crash when mashing the ~ key on disconnect
* Fixed a bug with sv_minrate and sv_maxrate not applying properly on the client
* Fixed the free roaming camera in SourceTV demos
* Fixed cl_language archiving itself and not updating correctly when the language changed
* Fixed a voice recording bug that could cause voice dropouts
* Fixed a rare crash when spectating in Counter-Strike: Source
We'd also like to thank Wim Barelds, TC from UKCS Mega Game Servers and Ray from Clan {US} East, for their time in reporting and testing this update.
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Post by B8 on Jun 14, 2007 18:36:03 GMT -5
They must get triple over time for steam updates. Yup that explains the reason for another update today.
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